Let's think about what each of these categories represent?
Death Ray or Poison
For me, the key to Death Ray or Poison is the poison. How well does your body resist the effects of poison and dying? To me that means this is basically a Constitution save, also useful for saving against disease and perhaps surviving 0 hit points. In a game with a single saving throw, I'd allow modifying the roll by a Constitution modifier.
Magic Wands
Why are magic wands treated differently than staves and spells? I don't have a good answer for this. So I took a page from _Harry Potter_ and _Lord of the Rings_. In Harry Potter, everyone has a wand and most of your magic is performed using it. People leap out of the way when someone starts pointing a wand. In LotR, Gandalf has a staff. I can't recall any instance when he pointed his staff to cast a spell. He stomped the staff to break the bridge in Khazad Dum. He lit the end of it for light. I imagine effects from the staff cannot be dodged, but perhaps resisted. So, for me, the Magic Wand save is a physical avoidance of the danger, and the Staves and Spells save is resistance to magic.
So, I'd use the Magic Wand save for any effect where you must use your dexterity and agility to avoid something. Jump out of the way of the pit trap or the laser beam, dodge the mechanical blow darts, or grabbing the rope that dangles over the cliff. Basically a DEX save. In a game with a single saving throw, I'd allow modifying the roll by a Dexterity modifier.
Paralysis or Petrification
Seriously, I'm completely stumped on how to generalize this saving throw. Perhaps to anything where one's movement is restricted, like being tied up. But what modifier to apply to a single saving throw? No clue.
Dragon Breath
Dragon Breath is not aimed at one person, it covers an area. So, the Dragon's Breath save could be used for any area-effect danger. That chest really was trapped, and now you need to jump out of the way of the poison gas. In a game with a single saving throw, I'd allow modifying the roll by a Dexterity modifier. I'd also make the save +2 to +4 harder than the standard save, since avoiding an area effect is harder than avoiding an aimed effect, like the Wand.
Rods, Staves, or Spells
This is your basic magic resistance save. Add the Intelligence modifier to a single saving throw as willpower, which is how some games do this. If the effect is aimed and requires a to-hit roll, use the Wands saving throw instead.
So, I'm not sure what this means for my nascent game. But thinking about these is helping me decide.
Just a small point; if an aimed effect requires a to-hit roll, I don't think there should be an avoidance save involved; that invalidates the effect of the to-hit roll.
ReplyDeleteOh, and also - a great analysis. And yes, they are kinda weird, especially if you start factoring in the chances of classes in these games succeeding at these saves.
Very true. I don't think wands etc. usually have to-hit rolls.
DeleteParalysis or Petrification (aka Turn to Stone) is often used when a stone drops from the ceiling to crush a character/the party. I don't know that it makes any sense, but that's something I've seen many times.
ReplyDeleteOne difference in using Save vs Death Ray or Poison as compared to a Save vs CON is that if you roll 3d6 in order and no adjustments for your stats, then it's quite possible to have a poor CON as a matter of course. I suspect one possible design motive for having an ST when CON would do, is that the player isn't penalized for poor dice rolling during character creation (beyond the impact on HP), and has an equal chance of survival as other PCs of the same level in the situation that required the save.
In general, in OD&D, attributes mean almost nothing except for choosing class and race, since you have to meet minimums. About the biggest modifier you can get for anything is a +1/-1.
DeleteAnd I'm *not* suggesting you Save vs. CON. I'm suggesting you modify the single save by a modifier, which will usually be +/-1.
I suppose that 'Paralyzed by Fear' might be a good way to look at that one.
Deletejohn wrote: One difference in using Save vs Death Ray or Poison as compared to a Save vs CON is that if you roll 3d6 in order and no adjustments for your stats, then it's quite possible to have a poor CON as a matter of course.
DeleteYeah, structurally the traditional saving throw is really more of a "level check" (adjusted by class) than anything else.
I mean, my read here is just that ALL these saves could be taken out & handled through Stat rolls, right?
ReplyDeleteThat is the way some games have done this.
Delete@mordicai
DeleteYou could do that, but it would drastically change how the game played. For one thing, it would dramatically increase the importance of the ability scores, and decrease the benefit gained from levelling.
Note that "save versus ability score" did actually show up in many early D&D products, so the system as a whole is not really coherent, though I think ability saves were used much less frequently than the level-based chart.